What I Don’t Get

It happens every election year, and I just don't get it.

Democratic presidential candidates speak from the pulpit at what seem to be (although, of course, I don't know this for certain) black, liberal-leaning churches. They spout Scripture to prove their positions, to--I suppose--get the vote out and influence it firmly in their direction.

Clinton did it, Gore did it, and now it's John Kerry's turn.

This is from the New York Times:

"If Mr. Kerry won over the town-hall crowd by setting the Bible aside, he showed Sunday morning that he could put Scripture to political use.

At the Greater Bethlehem Temple Pentecostal Church in Jackson, Mr. Kerry, who is Catholic, quoted James 2:14 - 'What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?' - a reference to the 'compassionate conservatism' espoused by Mr. Bush.'"

http://www.nytimes.com

If Republican candidates also stump in church, the media is failing to pick up on it, and somehow I think if George Bush crossed that line, it would be big news. The poor innocent church that invited a Republican candidate to speak his mind would soon enough find itself defending its tax-exempt status, and that's too scary for a rich church to contemplate.

The power of the separation of church and state is no where more apparent than in churches attempting to gain or hold onto their "status."

So what's up with this? If John Kerry can get away with it without there being a public outcry about "separation," why shouldn't George Bush preach his gospel at the suburban conservative leaning non-denom mega-church in Kansas City?

It happens every election year, and I just don't get it.

Posted by Katy on 03/08/04 at 01:31 PM

Fallible Comments...

Anyone can twist scripture to fit there position, sadly. Someone should have quoted back to him that love keeps no record of wrongs. Then, we could all throw scripture at one another left and right and get no where fast. LOL!

-----
Posted by Heather on 03/09/04 at 12:46 AM
But Bush does preach Scripture - he has from the very beginning. Take a look at this: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=1994 And I was always under the impression that that was a Republican thing. Perhaps it's not though, I'm beginning to believe that they all do. It is odd that in this country we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, when really, we never have.
Posted by laura on 03/11/04 at 10:22 AM
p.s. What reason outside of the Biblical text does Bush have to outlaw gay civil unions?
Posted by laura on 03/11/04 at 10:29 AM
The thing I often wonder is what reason we have for any of our laws if we neglect to employ some sort of higher standard, biblical or otherwise. It's really just a bunch of us trying to convince our elected representatives to pass laws that suit our particular set of morals, which are often set by how we interpret whatever standard we live by. It gets a little sticky trying to sort it all out. I'm all for praying that God have mercy on us and give us wisdom to choose the right leader for our country.
Posted by Mary on 03/12/04 at 01:26 AM
Katy -
Actually, according to the regulations of the IRS for a 501(c)(3), churches have every right to get involved in politics. The only restrictions that exist are 1) that the corporate entity (say the Deacons or a Board or whatnot) cannot directly support a candidate (usually expressed by taking a vote on the record) and 2) giving corporate funds from the said nonprofit to the candidate.

Otherwise, it is perfectly legal (as Mr. Kerry has shown us), for a pastor to endorse a candidate, for a candidate to speak in the church, even for a pastor to have the congregation give money (just not through the official coffers).

Furthermore, i firmly believe it is the _responsibility_ of churches to get involved. We are called to engage our culture, and by actively removing ourselves from that because we are so terrified by the ACLU, we become a useless (or at best very weak) cultural factor.

Only one in four Christians vote.

What is more, those in our region who call themselves "moderate" (which I have no problem with moderation) also call themselves "Christian" (which label I also don't mind), however the unwritten conflict of interest here is the obvious fact that "moderates" in our area support the killing of our unborn children, which I do firmly believe those in the "Christian" church adamantly oppose. And the church doesn't call them out on it because what they're really afraid of is losing some good tithe money that keeps them at peak numbers in oh-so-affluent Johnson County. Now I'd like to get the scoop on _that_.
Posted by petes on 03/13/04 at 04:31 AM
Okay..cool new blogback...I'm jealous. Doug...I want it, too!!!!
Posted by Bridget on 03/13/04 at 04:53 AM
Heather, So, so true...

Laura, Yes, Bush does quote Scripture. But as far as I know, he has not attempted it from a specific church pulpit, which is where he may or may not (I'm thinking may) come under fire from the ACLU or the Americans for the Separation of Church and State, if he tried it. Those same organizations rarely challenge a Democrat candidate who promotes his agenda from a pulpit.

Pete, Hi!
Posted by katy on 03/13/04 at 07:02 PM
Mary, You have a good and diplomatic heart!

Pete, I believe what you are saying about the church's rights are the letter of the law. When was the last time you saw voting records in the vestibule of a church? Not literature promoting one candidate or another, but merely educating the voters on how their elected officials have voted on the issues. I don't remember the last church I attended that wasn't to scared to make these available.

And as far as ministers speaking out if they're pro-life--it almost never happens. $$$$$ is the great silencer, one way or another. Sad.....

Bridget, I do not know how I got this new comment thingy. I don't think Doug is responsible, but he can set you up with comments! Love.
Posted by katy on 03/13/04 at 07:10 PM
Yes, it is the "letter" of the law; but NO church has ever lost its nonprofit status because of political activites. None. So its not just fear, it's sheer lack of responsibility and action. Truth be told, pastors are probably more afraid of losing tithe income from some liberal money bags in their congregation.

Regardless, I think the action is shameful and this "fear" is merely an excuse for having no spine. I think there's a slight shift coming finally, and at least a few brave Christians are starting to fight back. I just wish at least 3% more would do something, the change would be awe inspiring. Just 3%. It's not like it would take a super majority to do something... So don' tell me your vote doesn't count. Argh, now you've gone and got me all peeved at our apathetic, irresponsible ignorant society.

cheers.
Posted by petes on 03/16/04 at 08:24 PM
I have (had?) a raging debate about his going on over at my blog.
Posted by La Shawn Barber on 03/31/04 at 07:13 AM
Peter--"Truth be told, pastors are probably more afraid of losing tithe income"--Ouch! Painful to consider, but sadly, your comment has the ring of truth. Peter, you will love La Shawn's site!

La Shawn--How did you find fallible? I visited your site, and you've won me.

Hey, everybody, don't miss La Shawn's excellent and provocative insights! She's got me stoked!
Posted by katy on 04/03/04 at 06:26 AM
Hi Katy- I was checking out some of the blogs on the Blogs For God blogroll and decided to stop on in. Great site. I'm thinking of moving to TypePad or something so I can have more design flexibility. I'll be stopping by often!
Posted by La Shawn Barber on 04/03/04 at 07:55 AM

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Personal blog of christian writer & fallible mom Katy McKenna Raymond in Kansas City, Missouri Katy is represented by Greg Johnson at WordServe Literary Read more Katy at LateBoomer.net Follow Katy on Twitter Follow Katy on Facebook 123 Recent Posts Try Becoming Brenda Starr Off Beat Scattered That’s It So I’ve Finally Signed With An Agent. Now What? The Spoon Sciatica Sweetheart A Woman’s Train of Thought Has No Caboose However much we own, we are all still living on borrowed time After all, when restaurants shrink portions, they don’t shrink prices. As with everything in life, balance is key. Slow down, you move too fast… Yeah, I know. I have issues. Search Advanced Search Syndicate Login E me at katy @ ngenius.com	What I Don’t Get It happens every election year, and I just don't get it. Democratic presidential candidates speak from the pulpit at what seem to be (although, of course, I don't know this for certain) black, liberal-leaning churches. They spout Scripture to prove their positions, to--I suppose--get the vote out and influence it firmly in their direction. Clinton did it, Gore did it, and now it's John Kerry's turn. This is from the New York Times: "If Mr. Kerry won over the town-hall crowd by setting the Bible aside, he showed Sunday morning that he could put Scripture to political use. At the Greater Bethlehem Temple Pentecostal Church in Jackson, Mr. Kerry, who is Catholic, quoted James 2:14 - 'What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?' - a reference to the 'compassionate conservatism' espoused by Mr. Bush.'" http://www.nytimes.com If Republican candidates also stump in church, the media is failing to pick up on it, and somehow I think if George Bush crossed that line, it would be big news. The poor innocent church that invited a Republican candidate to speak his mind would soon enough find itself defending its tax-exempt status, and that's too scary for a rich church to contemplate. The power of the separation of church and state is no where more apparent than in churches attempting to gain or hold onto their "status." So what's up with this? If John Kerry can get away with it without there being a public outcry about "separation," why shouldn't George Bush preach his gospel at the suburban conservative leaning non-denom mega-church in Kansas City? It happens every election year, and I just don't get it. Posted by Katy on 03/08/04 at 01:31 PM Fallible Comments... Anyone can twist scripture to fit there position, sadly. Someone should have quoted back to him that love keeps no record of wrongs. Then, we could all throw scripture at one another left and right and get no where fast. LOL! ----- Posted by Heather on 03/09/04 at 12:46 AM But Bush does preach Scripture - he has from the very beginning. Take a look at this: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=1994 And I was always under the impression that that was a Republican thing. Perhaps it's not though, I'm beginning to believe that they all do. It is odd that in this country we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, when really, we never have. Posted by laura on 03/11/04 at 10:22 AM p.s. What reason outside of the Biblical text does Bush have to outlaw gay civil unions? Posted by laura on 03/11/04 at 10:29 AM The thing I often wonder is what reason we have for any of our laws if we neglect to employ some sort of higher standard, biblical or otherwise. It's really just a bunch of us trying to convince our elected representatives to pass laws that suit our particular set of morals, which are often set by how we interpret whatever standard we live by. It gets a little sticky trying to sort it all out. I'm all for praying that God have mercy on us and give us wisdom to choose the right leader for our country. Posted by Mary on 03/12/04 at 01:26 AM Katy - Actually, according to the regulations of the IRS for a 501(c)(3), churches have every right to get involved in politics. The only restrictions that exist are 1) that the corporate entity (say the Deacons or a Board or whatnot) cannot directly support a candidate (usually expressed by taking a vote on the record) and 2) giving corporate funds from the said nonprofit to the candidate. Otherwise, it is perfectly legal (as Mr. Kerry has shown us), for a pastor to endorse a candidate, for a candidate to speak in the church, even for a pastor to have the congregation give money (just not through the official coffers). Furthermore, i firmly believe it is the _responsibility_ of churches to get involved. We are called to engage our culture, and by actively removing ourselves from that because we are so terrified by the ACLU, we become a useless (or at best very weak) cultural factor. Only one in four Christians vote. What is more, those in our region who call themselves "moderate" (which I have no problem with moderation) also call themselves "Christian" (which label I also don't mind), however the unwritten conflict of interest here is the obvious fact that "moderates" in our area support the killing of our unborn children, which I do firmly believe those in the "Christian" church adamantly oppose. And the church doesn't call them out on it because what they're really afraid of is losing some good tithe money that keeps them at peak numbers in oh-so-affluent Johnson County. Now I'd like to get the scoop on _that_. Posted by petes on 03/13/04 at 04:31 AM Okay..cool new blogback...I'm jealous. Doug...I want it, too!!!! Posted by Bridget on 03/13/04 at 04:53 AM Heather, So, so true... Laura, Yes, Bush does quote Scripture. But as far as I know, he has not attempted it from a specific church pulpit, which is where he may or may not (I'm thinking may) come under fire from the ACLU or the Americans for the Separation of Church and State, if he tried it. Those same organizations rarely challenge a Democrat candidate who promotes his agenda from a pulpit. Pete, Hi! Posted by katy on 03/13/04 at 07:02 PM Mary, You have a good and diplomatic heart! Pete, I believe what you are saying about the church's rights are the letter of the law. When was the last time you saw voting records in the vestibule of a church? Not literature promoting one candidate or another, but merely educating the voters on how their elected officials have voted on the issues. I don't remember the last church I attended that wasn't to scared to make these available. And as far as ministers speaking out if they're pro-life--it almost never happens. $$$$$ is the great silencer, one way or another. Sad..... Bridget, I do not know how I got this new comment thingy. I don't think Doug is responsible, but he can set you up with comments! Love. Posted by katy on 03/13/04 at 07:10 PM Yes, it is the "letter" of the law; but NO church has ever lost its nonprofit status because of political activites. None. So its not just fear, it's sheer lack of responsibility and action. Truth be told, pastors are probably more afraid of losing tithe income from some liberal money bags in their congregation. Regardless, I think the action is shameful and this "fear" is merely an excuse for having no spine. I think there's a slight shift coming finally, and at least a few brave Christians are starting to fight back. I just wish at least 3% more would do something, the change would be awe inspiring. Just 3%. It's not like it would take a super majority to do something... So don' tell me your vote doesn't count. Argh, now you've gone and got me all peeved at our apathetic, irresponsible ignorant society. cheers. Posted by petes on 03/16/04 at 08:24 PM I have (had?) a raging debate about his going on over at my blog. Posted by La Shawn Barber on 03/31/04 at 07:13 AM Peter--"Truth be told, pastors are probably more afraid of losing tithe income"--Ouch! Painful to consider, but sadly, your comment has the ring of truth. Peter, you will love La Shawn's site! La Shawn--How did you find fallible? I visited your site, and you've won me. Hey, everybody, don't miss La Shawn's excellent and provocative insights! She's got me stoked! Posted by katy on 04/03/04 at 06:26 AM Hi Katy- I was checking out some of the blogs on the Blogs For God blogroll and decided to stop on in. Great site. I'm thinking of moving to TypePad or something so I can have more design flexibility. I'll be stopping by often! Posted by La Shawn Barber on 04/03/04 at 07:55 AM Page 1 of 1 pages Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. Next entry: Getting My Land Legs Previous entry: Things That Go Bump In The Light << Back to main


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What I Don’t Get

Personal blog of christian
writer & fallible mom
Katy McKenna Raymond
in Kansas City, Missouri